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I Listen (Red & Pinnacle)

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I Listen (Red & Pinnacle) Empty I Listen (Red & Pinnacle)

Post by Pinnacle on November 28th 2017, 4:13 am

Israel sighed as he pulled out the travel brochure, not because he actually needed to look at it, having memorized it the instant he had seen it the first time, but because he liked to be as normal as possible when he was on vacation.

Ofcourse, the normalcy of the vacation had already been severely upheaved by the arrival of an alien that thought himself a god, or at least, a god-to-be.

But Israel didn't want to think about that at the moment, so he went on his way, admiring the poetry (and in some cases, oddity,) of the Egyptian language. Colloquialisms were a commonality in the Egyptian tongue, in all of its major dialects. For instance, the usage of phrases such as "Israel is laid waste, his seed is no more." found upon the Merneptah Stele. He found that particular phrase to be especially hilarious considering both his name and lineage.

But then, it was not literal, but was, as mentioned, a colloquialism. A phrase that was not to be taken literally, but rather for some implication placed on it by the culture or language itself. Still, both are quite often indeed related. In this case, it meant that Egypt had conquered the kingdom of Israel, or at least claimed to. Pharaoh's were notorious for bragging and embellishing.

Heck, in the scriptures, the phrase "his nose grew" is used for a multitude of people to mean that they simply became angry with someone or something.

Though... He thought with a mild chuckle, That one can indeed be literal, if the person in question is mad enough to flare their nostrils at you.

Israel's smile wavered somewhat at thinking about some of the horrors he had seen earlier that week, and he sighed, attempting to focus further on the histories and mysticism of Egypt.

Something to distract him from London...

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Quote : "For it is in passing that we achieve immortality. Through this, we become a paragon of virtue and glory to rise above all; infinite in distance and unbound by death."

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Post by Red on November 28th 2017, 4:47 am

There were many things on Lucius' mind as of late. His son being gone, the situation with Blood Tithe and Silus, Sven, Rise. It was all coming at once, and even for someone with a mind such as Red's, it was often times too much to sort through. He was playing a game with fate, fighting a title bout with destiny. Every move counted, every subtle jab could mean the end of a war. To put it plainly, Lucius felt that the world rested on his shoulders. What he chose to do today could mean a vastly different world tomorrow, and that's why he was always learning......

To stay ahead of the pack, you had to learn. Even with his arrogance, Red knew he was still just a student. For every situation, every battle, information was the greatest weapon. He was determined to solve a problem before it became a problem, and to be prepared for even the most unlikely of situations. That is why he was in Egypt.

"....Hello beautiful," Lucius said, striving over a large dune. His grey eyes gazed upon a glamorous sight. A hidden temple, one rumored to shift it's position in the vast deserts in the blink of an eye. Few people had ever seen it before, and those that went in apparently never came out.

This was The Temple of Fates. The Cathedral of Destinies. The God's Keep. The World Writer's Palace. Lucius had heard so many legends and stories from the locals. From an entrance to Heaven to an Abyss you would never return from, it wasn't entirely clear what this place was. He didn't know if he should dread this place or be alighted by it's sight. That said, he intended to find out.

But why? Well, simple. A curious man by the name Isreal Knight had approached the dictator some months ago. His intentions weren't entirely clear, but the conversation the two men had only sparked curiosity in Lucius. From the serum the man presented him with, to the way he spoke and what he spoke about. Red had been put in waters he knew little about, wondering if some of the things Israel spoke of were even possible.

So, Red set about researching how one controls their soul. How does a person become one with themselves in a way that was similar to what Israel described? It wasn't that Lucius wanted this power for himself necessarily, he only wished to understand it. If someone like Israel, or even one such as Sin were to confront him in the future, Red bet such knowledge would come in handy. Because after all, knowledge was what he needed in this fight. It was the commodity of power, influence, wealth, and victory. Yes, he was here to delve into his Fate.

Red approached the giant white pyramid structure, his ropes blowing in the wind. Instead of his usual dark armor he wore something that wouldn't allow him to be so easily spotted—a desert version of his normal attire, essentially. Even though the dictator had been walking for miles, as his teleporter was unable to lock on or even remotely tunnel to this location, he didn't seem in need of water in the slightest. He continued on, and as if on cue, the massive white marble doors opened for him, a gleaming golden light welcoming the Rise head inside.

He knew not what he faced today, but i say again, he intended to find out.


Last edited by Red on December 1st 2017, 4:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

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I thought the price was my soul

That i need only give myself to reach my goal

Now i see that is not the cost

They'll all be taken

This deal was swindled, and i have lost
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Red
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Quote : "Natural Selection will force us into conflict either way. Only under Rise will that conflict be ordered, and with room for a future. The alternative is a catastrophic, global revolt of Inhumans."

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I Listen (Red & Pinnacle) Empty Re: I Listen (Red & Pinnacle)

Post by Pinnacle on November 28th 2017, 5:11 am

As if fate had answered his search for a distraction, a wave of power reverberated through him, taking him by surprise.

Something had shaken the Fateweave, like a rock falling into the ocean, the waves it created would grow weaker with distance, and the many ripples of the weave caused by the movements of life itself would drown it out.

The source of the wave was close, and Israel wasted no time in flying towards it, phasing through the building before him and making a straight shot for the epicenter.

He flew swiftly, easily fast enough to break the sound barrier, were he not storing the energy from the g-forces back into himself to avoid scaring anyone, or worse, damaging anything.

At length, less than a minute, really, he had located the source. A temple, or, more accurately, The Temple of Fate. A nexus of proscennial energies and gateway to a great many things.

Figures He thought. No vacation for me.

He smiled to himself as he floated silently to his feet at its gate, and saw a man just inside, entering the temple. He peered through the man's shroud from behind.

"... Prime Minister Alba?" He asked, genuinely not expecting to see the man he had previously spoken with so soon.

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Quote : "For it is in passing that we achieve immortality. Through this, we become a paragon of virtue and glory to rise above all; infinite in distance and unbound by death."

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Post by Red on November 28th 2017, 11:07 pm

The haze of light enveloped Lucius' senses, and he did not hear Scion's words. As soon as the Prime Minister stepped inside, the doors began to close. Though, with enough speed one could slip inside before they shut completely, as they were indeed massive things. Assuming Scion did, Lucius would finally realize the familiar face behind him, and the golden light faded.

Lucius scratched his head. This journey had been inspired by the very man that now stood before him, and Red couldn't help but be suspicious of that. His stance showed no change, but he was ready to pounce in an instant. It would only take a fraction of a second to draw his sword and slice at the neck, but he had yet to find a reason for that. Instead, he just stared at the man, blank optics examining him.

"Fitting that you would find yourself in my presence today. You are, after all, the reason i came here," Lucius said, taking a step forward. The room around them would now be clear. It was a white and gold version of The Throne Room in Belarus' Republican Palace. That fact did not escape Lucius, but he showed no surprise. He had, after all, been through similar tricks.

"Why are you here Isreal? First the fundraiser, now this..... I don't like it when people randomly pop up for reasons i don't know," Lucius said, finally turning his back to the man. He didn't let his guard down, but he did allow himself to look over the area. There wasn't much to this room. Just an opulent room decor with a throne at the end, and a steward's chair beside it.

Suddenly, the still slience, almost like an echo chamber, faded to the sound of a booming voice. It was impossible not to hear it, but where it was coming from was unclear. It addressed both men, but did not identify itself.

"Lucius Alba of Earth, you are willing to ignore the pain of others to instill lasting peace. You are fine with taking freedoms away if it means less suffering. So, knowing The Price of Power, will you choose the role of the supreme leader, or the humble guide?" Asked the voice. The point of this trial was now clear to Lucius. He was to make a choice, but he could only get what he desired fully through the suffering of others. This was the test. To see what kind of man he really was.

"Isreal Knight of Earth, you desire enlightenment and to halt the disparity of others, and yet you remain indifferent to the crimes of the man beside you. So i ask, would you put a stop to the wrong doing of someone you see as a victim themselves?" The voice said, addressing Scion. Both men would hear both messages, and the trial was about to begin. There was a short silence, perhaps a calm before the storm, and then Lucius began to walk.

It wasn't clear whether Red was on his way to the throne, or the chair, but what was clear was the effect each of his steps had. Lucius seemed oblivious, but Scion heard. He would experience a faint pain at first, and then screams from countless people. The intensity would build with each step until it was at an excruciating level, and Red wasn't even a quarter way to the end of the room.


Last edited by Red on December 1st 2017, 4:59 pm; edited 2 times in total

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Other Links:
I thought the price was my soul

That i need only give myself to reach my goal

Now i see that is not the cost

They'll all be taken

This deal was swindled, and i have lost
Red
Red
Site Moderator
Site Moderator

Status :
Online
Offline

Quote : "Natural Selection will force us into conflict either way. Only under Rise will that conflict be ordered, and with room for a future. The alternative is a catastrophic, global revolt of Inhumans."

Warnings : 0 Warnings
Number of posts : 1248
Location : The wrong side of history
Job : Professional Asshole
Humor : Hurting feelings and killing parents since 2014
Registration date : 2014-09-11

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I Listen (Red & Pinnacle) Empty Re: I Listen (Red & Pinnacle)

Post by Pinnacle on November 28th 2017, 11:28 pm

Israel called after Lucius, imploring him to wait, but knew that his cry would more than likely go unheard if he heard the cries that Israel did.

He gazed around the room as well, and it shifted with each angle to be a different room to his mind's eye. Ruins, polished marble, modern brick walls, hand carved wood from a cabin. To pinnacle, who could somewhat pierce the proscennial veil which permeated all of creation, the room never stayed the same for long.

He surmised that it must be strongly connected to this veil. The proscennium primordium. The curtain of fate. Behind which the Norns wrote life into existence and out again. Using their creations to learn, commune with each other, and sometimes, simply to entertain themselves.

It was a cruel reality in some cases, but such it was. Still, Israel knew that, like the inhabitants of each Earth and each other world as well, not every writer of fate was alike. Above all of this, every person's fate, even that of the Prime Minister of Belarus himself, remained largely unwritten, odd as that fact might seem when delving into such cosmic secrets and existential issues. Still, one thing was constant about the room itself...

... It was crumbling. Each almost holographic incarnation was bursting... Exploding... Burning... Dying.

And the screams and pain... They only intensified.

With these thoughts in mind, and only a few moments behind Lucius had done so, Israel determinedly walked forward... His strides long.

"Lucius, wait!" He called after him.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
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Status :
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Quote : "For it is in passing that we achieve immortality. Through this, we become a paragon of virtue and glory to rise above all; infinite in distance and unbound by death."

Warnings : 0 Warnings
Number of posts : 245
Location : Classified
Age : 29
Job : ECLIPSE Agent
Humor : PUNS!
Registration date : 2017-02-07

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I Listen (Red & Pinnacle) Empty Re: I Listen (Red & Pinnacle)

Post by Red on November 29th 2017, 12:03 am

Red strove forward, and much like in his actual quest for power, he felt nothing of the pain he caused in others. This symbolic strive toward the end of the room was focused on him, at least in his own head. As he neared the halfway point, he started to feel the strain it put on him. It was like a tidal wave of all he had felt over the last five years. He felt tired, empty. At one point, he even stopped, holding his head.

Why do you keep going? He heard in a familiar voice. It was female, had a sympathetic ring to it, and a slight accent. It was Her.

Is this..... Is this still for me? She asked. Lucius shook his head, denying the illusions invading his thoughts. He took another determined step forward, gritting his teeth, and that's when he heard another voice call out to him. It was Israel.

"....No, Israel, this is what it takes...... There can be no peace without there first being suffering..... If this is some symbol of my life, then i have to do this, just like i have to do it out there...." Lucius said. But, he was only feeling the pain his quest caused HIM, not others. He had to be told, convinced it all wasn't worth it in the end.

Eventually, Isreal would start to feel Lucius' pain as well. He would even see glimpses of Isabella and the visions Red was going through, along with so much more from the others. It was an agony that would kill anyone if the flood gates were opened, but this place prevented that in Scion.

You have to stop him..... He'll kill himself doing this...... And so many more. Please, help them..... And help him. Scion would, for the first time, hear this vision of Lucius' love address him through the screams, and through the pain. It was a pleading, desperate voice that hated to see this suffering done in her name. Or, perhaps what Red had convinced himself was her name.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Other Links:
I thought the price was my soul

That i need only give myself to reach my goal

Now i see that is not the cost

They'll all be taken

This deal was swindled, and i have lost
Red
Red
Site Moderator
Site Moderator

Status :
Online
Offline

Quote : "Natural Selection will force us into conflict either way. Only under Rise will that conflict be ordered, and with room for a future. The alternative is a catastrophic, global revolt of Inhumans."

Warnings : 0 Warnings
Number of posts : 1248
Location : The wrong side of history
Job : Professional Asshole
Humor : Hurting feelings and killing parents since 2014
Registration date : 2014-09-11

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I Listen (Red & Pinnacle) Empty Re: I Listen (Red & Pinnacle)

Post by Pinnacle on November 29th 2017, 12:49 am

Israel didn't bother resisting feeling everything that the room wanted to show him. All of the tears, the sadness, the aching, and the loss... He had to feel it.

He wanted to know... To truly understand everything the room placed upon them.

Not the room... The voice... A voice of fate itself.

However, in spite of the pain in his heart... The growing void that he felt in his soul... He did utilize his abilities to press onward. He had to get to Lucius, and his sheer force of will kept him moving forward at the same pace... Allowing him to catch up to Lucius...

"Lucius..." He placed a hand on his shoulder, himself mentally exhausted as the screams and destruction echoed in his mind ever louder. "I may not be able to convince you with words... But you must see how the path you walk has effected others... And how this effect will only grow..." Israel said, breathing somewhat heavily against the pain he refused to quell.

Then... He shared the pain.

All of the screams of agony. All of the cries of grief. All of the images of children crying at the graves of their parents. All of the sleepless nights, sobbing into the pillow. All of the pleas to the dying to live, given in vain. All of the terror of your entire world crashing down around you.

All of his own pain, echoed in the lives of tens, then hundreds, then thousands...

"What will convince you to stop, Lucius? How much farther must you distance yourself from all that you love before you realize that it is too far?" Israel paused to breathe. "Before you realize that the ones you love never wanted you to leave them alone?"

He caught his breath once again. "I can feel it, Lucius. Her love for you. Her pain at your choices. Her heart breaking. I felt it when we spoke not long ago..." Again, he paused to breath.

"You know in your soul that she never wanted you to walk this path... And I see all the more here... I see an empty space on your wall where her picture once hung... You know that it breaks her heart to see you like this... You couldn't have her looking at you... Not as you are now... He tightened his grip on Lucius' shoulder.

"I can see him... I know you blame yourself for his death... I can feel..." He trails off, tears beginning to slowly stream down his face. "I can feel your own heart breaking all over again as you feel once again that you've lost everything..." Israel inhaled and exhaled quickly.

"The voice was wrong. I don't ignore the things you've done... But I can feel her hope... I cannot allow you to burn yourself to ash, consuming that hope in its flames... To attain a goal in the name of the very ones you are hurting to get there!"

At last, Israel drops to his knees, letting his arm fall from Lucius' shoulder, and ending the connection. He caught his breath for a long moment, still not allowing himself to resist the images and their emotion.

"Please... Lucius... Please..."

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Quote : "For it is in passing that we achieve immortality. Through this, we become a paragon of virtue and glory to rise above all; infinite in distance and unbound by death."

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Age : 29
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Post by Red on November 29th 2017, 1:51 am

Red could deal with his own pain. He could deal with sacrificing himself. He had determination in his eyes, and he kept moving. Each step felt like he was strapped to a ball and chain, but he kept on like he always did. At the impressive pace, he would reach the throne in record time. There were very few who could make such a journey, but he continued through sheer force of will. Even through the visions of Isabella, he wouldn't falter.

Please... I never wanted this for you. My legacy isn't more important then your life.... Isabella's voice boomed in Red's head even as he felt like the life was being drained from him. Still, the dictator was unflinching. He was stubborn, and would not stop. If this was supposed to represent what he was to do on the outside, he would do it without fail.

Lucius..... You're dying. You promised me..... You said you would live.... So why are you killing yourself? The words hit Red hard, tripping up his steps. Perhaps he was dying. Maybe he was breaking his promise...... But even still, a world where someone wasn't subjected to the loss he had endured, a world like Isabella invisioned, that was more important to him then his own life. He pressed on...

"I love you........ It will be over soon... Don't worry," Red said under his breath. His chest was tight, his eyes watery, and his legs weak. He didn't stop though. He knew he was destroying himself, but it didn't matter. He loved her too much to abandon this.

As Red reached the foot of the throne, a hand was placed on his shoulder. It was Israel. To add to his own pain, he suddenly felt a surge unlike anything he had ever felt before. He yelled out in agony, dropping to his knees. His hands clutched his head as it pounded, and he trembled as electric fire pulsed through every fiber of his body. He felt it all. The loss of a loved one, the burn of red energy, the last painful blow before the embrace of death. These were things he had inflicted on the world.... He could barely take it.

Scion talked of things he shouldn't have known as he channeled these feelings into Red. The man had emotion in his voice. He had felt the impact of Lucius' most private memories. In any other circumstance Red would have been outraged, but not now, not with what was going through his mind. He could tell Israel understood. This man's words were sincere, pained, and the Rise head couldn't help but acknowledge them. Lucius cried out, his flushed face and teary eyes hidden by his mask.

"I loved her! I loved him! I care about this world more then anyone alive!...... You think i don't know of how i hurt people? That you must show me? I know..... I know all too well of this... I'm sorry. I'm so sorry...... But it all happens anyway. We die, we lose those we love, and atrocious act are committed.... If i have to DIE to make it WORTH SOMETHING, i will!" Lucius howled. He forced himself to his feet, even though the pain of thousands, and he crawled, no, clawed up the steps...... In only a moment, he fell into the throne.

He was not proud, not powerful in his place of glory. He was burnt out, his head hanging low, and his body trembling. But, he was there, he had done it, and the pain stopped...

Lucius looked up, staring at Scion. He knew the man was probably disappointed, but that didn't matter. This is what he was. This was his fate. The first trial was done.

And then the lights went out.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Other Links:
I thought the price was my soul

That i need only give myself to reach my goal

Now i see that is not the cost

They'll all be taken

This deal was swindled, and i have lost
Red
Red
Site Moderator
Site Moderator

Status :
Online
Offline

Quote : "Natural Selection will force us into conflict either way. Only under Rise will that conflict be ordered, and with room for a future. The alternative is a catastrophic, global revolt of Inhumans."

Warnings : 0 Warnings
Number of posts : 1248
Location : The wrong side of history
Job : Professional Asshole
Humor : Hurting feelings and killing parents since 2014
Registration date : 2014-09-11

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I Listen (Red & Pinnacle) Empty Re: I Listen (Red & Pinnacle)

Post by Pinnacle on November 29th 2017, 2:21 am

Israel knelt where he was... Quickly gaining control of his breathing without having to fight the pain... And yet, he remained there...

He no longer felt the agony physically... But every cry of anguish still rung with perfect clarity in his mind.

It was worse than Jack... Worse than London... Worse than anything... Worse than everything... And for a long moment, he knelt in both silence... And in the tumult that echoed in his mind.

"You... Never answered my question..." He said slowly, looking back up at Lucius, beginning to glow with light.

"What will it take? What could it possibly take to convince you that this path will lead to nothing but ruin..." His voice was stung with the bitterness of loss.

"So many people think they know what's best for the world... Think they have it all figured out... But we aren't one person, we're a society, and how society improves and gets better should be determined by that society... Not by one man." He said, rising to his feet as the light inside him grew brighter.

"You believe that there is an objectively good way of doing things. A certain path and execution of that path to reach progress. Well, let me tell you, progress takes many forms, and we aren't going to reach the pinnacle of our existence by adhering to one man's dream. Neither mine, nor yours, nor any single person's." Israel said, standing straight now.

"I, Rozmer, and now the voice of one of the fatewriters themselves tell you these things... That there is so much at stake if you continue... And you ignore them... Why? He said with real bewilderment.

"The losses you have suffered... The losses of all of these people... Past and future, if you should continue down this path... Will ring in my memories for eternity... So I ask again..." Israel said in a pained voice.

"What will convince you that you may be wrong? To cause you to truly entertain that thought?" He pleaded, the bitterness still apparent in his voice.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I Listen (Red & Pinnacle) PinnacleSig
Pinnacle
Pinnacle
Posting Apprentice
Posting Apprentice

Status :
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Offline

Quote : "For it is in passing that we achieve immortality. Through this, we become a paragon of virtue and glory to rise above all; infinite in distance and unbound by death."

Warnings : 0 Warnings
Number of posts : 245
Location : Classified
Age : 29
Job : ECLIPSE Agent
Humor : PUNS!
Registration date : 2017-02-07

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Post by Red on November 29th 2017, 3:09 am

There was only darkness now. The next trial awaited, but they were both still where they were. The conversation would go on as the temple rumbled, preparing the next test. Lucuus could not see Scion anymore, but he heard his voice, and could tell where it was coming from. With the pain now gone, Lucius felt his thoughts click into place again. He was back to his clear, concise self.

Lucius thought a moment in slience. Israel made a compelling argument. It was one of freedom, and one of peace. Yes, so many people had told him that one man's vision for a better world never worked out, no matter how good the intentions. But, to Lucius, the same could be said of society. The world had failed to bring peace this far, it wasn't going to start doing well now.

"Yes.... Those with supposed authority and moral values have told me that, and yet i still see a world on fire. What new way has Rozmer proposed? In what way have you stopped loss, war, hunger, pain, and misery like you just felt? What are the 'fatewriters' doing to make our world a better place to live? The answer to your question is: when i am proven wrong. When i see REAL progress toward a collective vision...... But i won't, because society is too varied. Society is filled with people that want power for themselves. There is NO way to create a world in everyone's vision," Lucius said. The darkness began to rise, a light slowly creeping up like the dawn of a new day. Both men would now be able to make each other out. They stood in the center of a circular stadium type room. Dozens of chairs surrounded them but nobody sat in the forum. Not yet, anyway.

"I could be wrong. Maybe peace can be found in some other way, but i don't see anyone else making strides for that better world. Not real strides, anyway. We have heroes trying to punch the problem into submission, governments trying to suck the people dry, and people like you....... Who think we can all just agree, " Lucius said. Scion was free to respond, but it was clear Red was done talking about it. He turned away from Israel, examing the new room they were in. Red had a feeling this may have a bit to do with what they were just discussing.

"If what you say is true, demonstrate. Can you get the masses to agree? Can a compromise be reached that makes everyone happy, or are they destined for disagreement?" The fatewriter said, his voice booming through the room once again. In the chairs appeared gold light in the form of silhouettes, each with a distinct voice. Some were familiar, others were new. But what was clear, was that these voices did not agree on something.

"Bad things happen all the time. They are necessary for a society to function."

"Nonsense! We aren't animals! We can agree to live peacefully. It's men like he, Lucius Alba, who create conflict."

"Lies! Humans are bloodthirsty and tribal. You think like the other in the room..... This so called 'Pinnacle' of man. There will be no end to the conflict of our society without control."

These types of discussions poured into the room, to the point even Lucius didn't know where to start. But, suddenly, a deeper, commanding voice made itself known in the room. It ushered in silence in the forum, and addressed Lucius and Scion.

"I'll take that as your opening statement, Lucius. Care to reply, Israel? What will make us a better society? How can we, if at all, abolish pain and loss? The trial shall cease once a compromise is made amongst us, or you concede," The voice said, clearly putting the situation on the table. Suddenly, all attention was on Scion, and the floor was his...

Looks like Lucius wasn't getting out of this discussion like he thought.

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I Listen (Red & Pinnacle) Empty Re: I Listen (Red & Pinnacle)

Post by Pinnacle on November 29th 2017, 3:41 am

Israel nodded to the last voice before beginning his response: "I have never argued that we could abolish pain and loss, nor do I think that we should even try necessarily. My argument has ever been this: That the efforts that have been taken by you, Lucius Alba," He said, towards Lucius and towards the voice at the same time, "... Have not done what you profess that they are working towards, and in fact, have added to the very same pain and loss that they are meant to ultimately abolish. I say this on an individual basis, and maintain that all such cases of judging men's actions must be carried out as such. Individually." Pinnacle said.

"You speak of desiring objective proof that we can move forward in a way other than your own towards a better world, and I counter argue that the objective proof that we have certainly does not show that your own path, with specific regard to the violence and death intertwined with it, has done anything to lead to this world. I also formally disclaim any notion that I maintain total failure in this matter to head towards this future, and again, restate that my comments are in specific regard to the violence and death tied in with this path, to which I specifically take issue." Israel says, speaking formally and matter-of-factly.

"To address your own question against me, wherein you inquired as to what I have done for society when it comes to moving them towards a brighter future, I would say that I have helped many lives individually, and the individual is the building block of society. That said, I have no further statements at this time, and I am fully prepared to listen to any and all counter arguments or other such statements of reply." He said.

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Post by Red on November 29th 2017, 4:13 am

"Ah, a formal debate. I haven't had one of these since College, " Lucius said with a faint smirk, pacing slowly around the circular room. He tended to move around when he spoke, and nowhere was it more clear then in this room. He had no other action but the debate to focus on, so his body absently searched for activity, leading to him walking. Whatever the reason for it though, it projected his presence on the floor quite well, he supposed.

"There is plenty of proof. The Romans used blood and conquest to spread their still brutal, but at least less savage culture to the rest of Europe, paving the way for a new era of Western civilization. Much later on, the colonists came to America and slaughtered the natives with superior technology. What did the world get in return? The industrial revolution, new strives in freedom and democracy, and the most technologically driven country in history. And now, centuries later, we come to Belarus. I implemented my vision by toppling a tyrannical regime, and then giving them due punishment for their crimes. What we got as a result is one of the only nations that fully embraces metahumans and their importance for the future. We lead in technology, health, economy, innovation, you name it.... All because we gave up a little freedom, and were willing to do what was necessary to end a self serving dictator," Lucius said, still walking around the room. Other then his voice, the forum was in dead silence, even when he paused.

"I am not endorsing mass murder, genocide, or any other specific atrocity. What i am saying, however, is that to fight horrible things you must do horrible things. I will always be willing to do what is needed, because there will always be those who are willing to do so in service of themselves, not the world." Red stopped in place, looking out at the silhouettes, who seemed to stare attentively despite a distinct lack of facial features.

"Yes yes, individuals are just great. They have their own desires, ambitions, wants, needs, struggles, and hardships. Because of that, some individuals trample on others. Help individuals all you want, it won't change the world. We've accepted that we all have to be on different teams, striving for our own glory because that's how it has been since the dawn of time. Well, i say no more. I say we can unite for a common good, just like Rise has, and just like Belarus has. And with that, i rest my case....... There might be other ways to minimize suffering, but none that have been demonstrated throughout history as well as mine has, " Lucius said, walking back to his place in the center of the room. The floor was once again Scion's, but there were now mermers amongst the crowd, rather then silence.

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Post by Pinnacle on November 29th 2017, 4:49 am

Israel shook his head. "As much as I disagree with your philosophies on history and how you spin it... It is a side argument with only minimal relevance to my own argument, which, as was stated, is that your own actions that you relate to history have not only failed to produce your society with less pain, but have amplified its problems. Referring to past atrocities that were later followed by positive events is disjointed correlation without causation, and throws out the far more common trend of the positive leading unto the positive. I propose that we focus on actual objective facts instead of a spin on history. He said, his expression marred by the events of the previous room, and lacking his characteristic positivity.

"Thus I maintain and restate my argument once more that the path that you profess to lead towards serenity has only lead to pain, and I pose the question: If you are really looking for objective proof for counter arguments to your plan, which should not be necessary given the overwhelming amount of objective evidence for its current spiral towards the very thing it is meant to lead society away from, then showing you such evidence should certainly convince you to abandon said plan, yes? Israel asked, honestly.

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Post by Red on November 29th 2017, 5:17 am

Lucius narrowed his eyes, then smirked. Getting tired of walking around, and because there seemed to be a lack of chairs in this room, he decided to sit down indian style. It was an odd posture for such a formal man, but he did so without hesitation. He let the words hit the air a moment, thinking them over before speaking.

"I didn't spin anything, i stated a fact and then a result of that fact both times. Sure, there could have been another path to the same positive result, but as i said earlier, i never claimed my way was the only way, just that it was a way." Lucius said rubbing his chin as his grey eyes stared into space. He rolled his shoulders, getting comfortable in his position.

"Given objective evidence that my actions are going to have a negative rather then positive effect on the world? Yes, i would have to change my methodology, of course. Do you have a crystal ball handy? Because without it, we must look at the past in prediction of the future.....  You also ignored Belarus, which has been filled with positives far outweighing the negatives. Besides, this spiral you speak of doesn't exist. Two years ago i would have killed anyone who stood against me, in any way, and now we're having a friendly debate. Sounds like improvement to me," Lucius said. He seemed in thought, or perhaps shock. After all, only moments ago he was experiencing a rather profound situation, and now he was being expected to rigorously debate his position. Of course he was a little spaced out.

"Discounting examples from history, because apparently those aren't acceptable, I'm still the only one bringing an example to the table to support my claims. We have a country built on my philosophy achieving things the world has never seen before..... And it was created out of necessity. Because metas were being hunted, people were losing their lives to maniacs with ships and portals in the sky, and we'd been all but abandoned by everyone except for a few ego driven heroes. I don't know where you've been the last ten years Israel, but i invite you to compare that to life in Belarus. Tell me there's no proof then."

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Now i see that is not the cost

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I Listen (Red & Pinnacle) Empty Re: I Listen (Red & Pinnacle)

Post by Pinnacle on November 29th 2017, 9:52 am

Israel nodded, regaining some of his original demeanor slowly over time, it seemed. "Ah, yes. Belarus. A country that even according to you, yourself, was run by a dictator before you even got there and improved because of your arrival. It wasn't your philosophy towards violence that improved the already violent country. It was your science and the power it brought to a violent nation, and the peaceful embassy you opened with the United States and others most of all. You brought an era of prosperity by bringing violence, you claim. No. You brought prosperity by being a better leader than the last because you don't seek power for yourself, but as a vehicle of said improvement. It was not the cutting down of civilians that accomplished your improvements. From your standpoint, at best, it is evidence that neither of us can use in support of our ideals. At worst, It is evidence, not of making things worse to make things better, but of immediately making things better by being an immediately better person than the last; the very pattern of my own argument. Israel said in an even tone.

"I do not site examples from history to support my claims because I know that you are a smart man who knows these examples already, and knows that they outnumber your own examples by far. But you ignore them because you aren't looking for the rule, but for the exception. Your entire claims are built upon this exceptionalism, and you are too proud to admit this to yourself." Israel said, sounding exhausted.

"A crystal ball, you say? Only the past holds any answers for the future? We're in the Temple of Fate! The very nexus of past, present, and future! Yet, if I were to somehow utilize its energies to show you a future where your path was different, can you honestly tell me that you wouldn't just brush it to the side as you did with the previous vision?" He said, more emotionally now, and he paused for a moment.

"... I can still hear them, Lucius. You may have left the visions behind as illusions. But I'm still there... I am simultaneously every single one of those thousands of people gazing at the ruins around them. I couldn't forget them if I wanted to. I know that these visions effected you... But rather than acknowledge your own hand in their suffering you would deny their pain, reducing it to being a necessary sacrifice for you to achieve your vision of a future with arbitrary gains compared to the longer path of peace to the same end. Yes. It will take longer to reach your kind of world without you pushing for it, causing so much suffering along the way... But less people will suffer. The very same goal you seek to attain is therefore unattainable by your philosophies, as it causes the very thing you profess to be against. It does not begin with less suffering. It does not continue on with less suffering, and it does not end with less suffering." Israel said.

"I hope you will live up to your word, because I've a feeling that we will see where these two paths shall end... And I hope that you'll ask yourself why this temple would show you such horrible consequences of your actions if the end result of them is really the best path..."

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